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Democracy Now! interview: Hugo Chavez on how to tackle climate change: `We must go from capitalism to socialism'
December 21, 2009 -- Democracy Now! -- We speak with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez about climate change, the Copenhagen summit and President Obama. Chavez calls the COP15 summit undemocratic and accuses world leaders of only seeking a face-saving agreement. “We must reduce all the emissions that are destroying the planet,” Chavez says. “That requires a change in the economic model: we must go from capitalism to socialism.”
AMY GOODMAN: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez spared no
criticism of the climate conference in Copenhagen. At a joint news
conference he held with the Bolivian president Evo Morales on Friday
afternoon—this was before President Obama announced the accord—Chavez
called the proceedings undemocratic and accused world leaders of only
seeking a face-saving agreement. He described President Obama as having
won the “Nobel war prize” and said the world still smelled of sulfur,
referring to his comments about President Bush at the United Nations
Well, shortly after the news conference, I caught up with President Chavez for a few minutes.
AMY GOODMAN: You sell more oil to the United States
than any country but Canada. Your economy depends on oil, yet you are
here at a climate change summit. What’s your proposal?
PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ: [translated] The problem is not
the oil, but what they do with the oil. The United States is the
biggest spender of oil and of all the planet resources. Oil is a very
valuable resource for life—electric heaters. We must have to transition
ourselves to a post-oil era. And that’s what we must discuss, searching
and developing new sources of energy. And that requires scientific
research. That requires investment. And the developed countries must be
the ones to assume this responsibility first.
AMY GOODMAN: What level of emissions are you willing to support reductions of emissions?
PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ: [translated] One hundred percent.
One hundred percent. We must reduce the emissions 100 percent. In
Venezuela, the emissions are currently insignificant compared to the
emissions of the developed countries. We are in agreement. We must
reduce all the emissions that are destroying the planet. However, that
requires a change in lifestyle, a change in the economic model: we must
go from capitalism to socialism. That’s the real solution.
AMY GOODMAN: How do you throw away capitalism?
PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ: [translated] The way they did it
in Cuba. That’s the way. The same way we are doing in Venezuela: giving
the power to the people and taking it away from the economic elites.
You can only do that through a revolution.
AMY GOODMAN: President Obama—what is your reaction to his speech today?
PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ: [translated] Obama is a big
frustration. In my opinion, Obama can become one of the biggest
frustrations in the history for many people, not for me, but the people
of the United States that voted for him and saw him as a symbol of hope
for change. But he has given continually to the most aggressive Bush
policies, the imperialist policies.
AMY GOODMAN: What example of that?
PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ: [translated] The war. I told
Obama, when he took the initiative to come visit us in the Summit of
the Americas—we talked for a few minutes. I told him, “Obama, let’s
work for peace in Colombia. That’s what I am proposing. Let’s get a
team together to analyze the problem.” But absolutely nothing. He is
now installing seven military bases in Colombia. That’s just one
And in Iraq and Afghanistan, policies of war. Guantanamo, it is
a great frustration. And I feel sorry, not for me. You are from the
United States. I feel sorry for you, because you deserve a government
that takes care of the problems of the people of the United States and
stops thinking about dominating the rest of the world and just governs
over the United States, eradicates the problems of the United States,
the poverty, the inequality, which gets bigger every day, the
unemployment, families on the street, homeless, without Social
Security, diseases. I wish for you to get a government that truly takes
care of you first and then works towards peace for the rest of the
AMY GOODMAN: The US government calls you a dictator. What is your response?
PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ: [translated] I laugh. I laugh. It is the empire calling me a dictator. I’m happy. And I remember Don Quixote, Quixote who was with Sancho, you know, and the dogs start to bark, and Sancho says, “They are going to bite us.” And Quixote wisely answers, “Take it easy, Sancho, because if the dogs are barking, it is because we are galloping.” I will be very sad and worried if the imperialist government was calling me a great democratic man. No, it is them, the empire, who attack those who are truly contributing to the real democracy.
AMY GOODMAN: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez speaking to us in Copenhagen on Friday.
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