Independent Trade Union of Miners leader Yuriy Samoilov: ‘More than war fatigue, what we have is apathy. Most people no longer expect anything.’

Yuriy Samoilov is an Independent Trade Union of Miners of Ukraine (NPGU) leader in Kryvyi Rih and an activist with the Ukrainian left-wing organisation Sotsialnyi Rukh (Social Movement). In this interview with Federico Fuentes for LINKS International Journal of Socialist Renewal, conducted with the help of Serhii Shlyapnikov, Samoilov provides a left-wing and trade union perspective on the Russia-Ukraine war. He discusses how unions are dealing with the twin challenges of foreign occupation and domestic attacks on workers rights, as well as the need for international solidarity with Ukrainian workers.

What have been the effects on people’s morale of Russia’s relentless attacks on energy infrastructure?

There were numerous attacks on energy infrastructure during summer [June-August]. Everyone is stocking up on generators and batteries. Heating has not yet been turned on in large buildings, yet it snowed yesterday [November 13], so people are already freezing and fear the coming winter, especially the elderly and those with children.

In Kryvyi Rih, Russian attacks now concentrate on residential areas and hotels. Four hotels, of which we do not have many, have been destroyed, along with several residential buildings. Civilians, entire families, have been killed. Just a few days ago, there was a strike near our trade union office. A large five-story building was destroyed. Several people died, including a mother and her three young children — the youngest just seven-months old. The father only survived because he was at work. Children have to study in basements or online. Everyone is afraid of further attacks.

As for energy facilities, the Russians have bombed everything they could. The only remaining targets are nuclear power plants, but hitting those would represent a whole different situation. If a nuclear plant was bombed, radiation would also spread to the West. If a missile hit the Rivne Nuclear Power Plant, all of Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and the Czech Republic would be covered by radiation. They may start bombing certain distribution substations near nuclear plants; we are used to this because they did it last year.

How have the government and unions reacted to the attacks on people’s houses?

The government pays people compensation for the loss of their homes. Where homes can be repaired, local authorities carry out restorations. From what I see this is done quite quickly. As for trade unions, when a member’s house is destroyed, we provide temporary housing.

Trade unions, especially local branches such as the Kryvyi Rih miners, have played important roles in Ukraine’s resistance. How have unions contributed to defending Ukraine’s sovereignty?

Half of NPGU members joined the front as soon as the war started. They either signed up for the Territorial Defence or were drafted into the army. Today, about 70% of those who were trade union members at the start of the war are fighting. Trade unions provide strong support to those who are fighting because they remain union members. But trade union membership has decreased because of the war.

We cover workers in large enterprises, where it is easier for military recruitment. Now, there are exemptions that mean workers cannot be conscripted into the army. But in general, everyone feels pressure to go and fight. The Territorial Defence training centres are very harsh and operate in a provocative manner. Recruiters enter enterprises such as ArcelorMittal, but trade unions oppose this.

How has the war affected the normal work of unions? Have unions had to put aside their own demands and actions, such as strikes to maintain wages, in order not to be seen as undermining the war effort?

Currently, at the Kryvyi Rih Iron Ore Plant, we are involved in a labour dispute. Despite the war, we are demanding a 20% salary rise. We are negotiating within the legal framework available to us. Before the war, strikes and protests were recognised by the courts as legal. Now we continue to push our demands without resorting to protests or strikes. We are indeed limited in what actions we can take to protect our rights.

How have trade unions reacted to moves by Ukraine’s parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, to restrict worker’s rights?

The working class and trade unions have no party in the Verkhovna Rada that represents their interests. The only MP from a trade union is Mykhailo Volynets, who is from the Confederation of Free Trade Unions of Ukraine and is a member of the Batkivshchyna (Fatherland) parliamentary faction.

Riding the wave of hope that Volodymyr Zelensky represented in 2019, several parties without any real ideology entered the Verkhovna Rada. Trade unions do not know how to work with these parties. They also haven’t found ways to amend legislation in parliament because of the war.

In contrast, trade unions previously defeated attempts to pass a new Labour Code. In Ukraine, the Labour Code adopted during the period of the Soviet Union is still in force [unlike in Russia, where it was abolished at the start of Vladimir Putin’s presidency in 2001]. And despite all the decommunisation laws, they have not yet managed to decommunise the Labour Code. This was due to the work of trade unions and the intervention of international trade union organisations.

There have been reports in the West of increasing war fatigue in Ukraine. How do people in Ukraine feel about speculation over what would most likely be an unfair peace deal?

More than fatigue, which has already passed, we now have apathy. Apathy is worse. Most people no longer expect anything.

I feel like this is a repeat of 1943 [when half of Ukraine was under Nazi occupation and the prospects for victory seemed uncertain]. I feel that Western support for Ukraine will disappear and we will be left alone to deal with Russian imperialism.

Do many share your fears regarding a drop in Western support?

We are in a situation similar to Czechoslovakia in 1938 — those who know history will understand what I mean. The leaders of Europe and the United States view the situation just as they did then, when Europe sought ways to appease Hitler.

Just like many other countries in the world, Ukraine is not considered part of the “civilised” world. In this sense, there is no distinction between us and the nations of Latin America, Asia or Africa — the West treats us all the same way.

Western countries have used military aid to Ukraine as a pretext to cut back on social spending at home. What would you say to governments who seek to use Ukraine’s just war of self-defence to carry out regressive attacks against their own workers and unions?

In Ukraine, the social rights of workers and trade unions are also being cut back. Several laws have been passed that significantly reduce the rights of workers’ and military personnel. Pensions have been cut: before the war, it was unheard of for pensions to be cut, but now they are targeting retirees. Even people with a disability are being targeted, with a bill being discussed that will strip them of the right to claim damages from their employer in case of injury or loss of ability to work. This will also apply to military personnel.

Governments of other countries look at this and see if they can follow the same path. They seek any excuse to cut social benefits for workers. We should not listen to such excuses.

How have trade unions responded to Zelensky’s recently announced “Victory Plan”?

A plan cannot just be five words on a page. A plan requires a complete set of actions to be carried out throughout the country. We do not have this.

For example, we do not have a full-scale military mobilisation. It is true that we are waiting for support from the West but, internally, we are poorly organised. Ukraine has huge military-industrial potential, especially in terms of competent people capable of developing modern weapons. But even now, mining and metallurgy enterprises are not receiving orders for iron ore or metal from within the country. There are many industrial enterprises in Ukraine that could be functioning, but are not operating right now.

How can trade unions best help their Ukrainian counterparts?

Though they say that I should not raise this topic, it is important to point out that international trade unions have only suspended the membership of Russian trade unions that support military aggression against Ukraine. The only confederation to have excluded their Russian trade union affiliate for supporting the war is the IUF [International Union of Food, Agricultural, Hotel, Restaurant, Catering, Tobacco and Allied Workers' Associations]. No other trade union structure has expelled Russian trade unions supporting military aggression.

Since 2014, the property of trade unions in Crimea and the occupied territories have been handed over to yellow trade unions based in Russia. These same trade unions are deeply embedded in European and global trade unions. I do not know the full situation, but I would like to know how global and European trade unions can accept money from an aggressor that is stained in blood. Part of the dues these unions collect are from bloodied regions of Ukraine.

I could say something similar about the United Nations. Recently, [UN Secretary-General António] Guterres went to a BRICS summit in Kazan, where a photo was taken of him shaking Putin’s hand with his head bowed. Where else have we seen such a photo before? When the last president of the First Czech Republic shook hands with Hitler. The same posture. The same photo.

The least we should expect from international organisations is they do not dirty their hands with the blood of Russian imperialism.

I heard there is also dissatisfaction with the Red Cross.

I think it would be good if trade unions could protest at Red Cross headquarters in various countries, because the Red Cross’s current policy is evidently facilitating aggression. The Red Cross comes and inspects the camps and prisons where Russian prisoners of war are held in Ukraine. Yet, there has not been a single report on the condition of Ukrainian prisoners of war in Russian prisons, despite many Ukrainians dying in Russian prisons, as documented by the Ukrainian prosecutor's office, along with many more being killed while surrendering on the battlefield.

Do you feel that help is not currently being provided by international trade unions and left-wing organisations?

It is important to say that help is being provided. For example, our city was left without clean water. This created a situation I have not seen anywhere else, where stores are only selling clean water. In Kryvyi Rih, such stores are numerous, selling cleaning water at $2.50 a litre. In response, trade unions from Europe and across the world, as well as some left-wing groups, raised funds to buy filters so we could distribute water for free to certain parts of the population.

But many left-wing groups continue holding pro-Russian positions. They believe there is only one imperialism, US imperialism, and claim Russian imperialism does not exist. Yet there are many imperialisms.

Independent left-wing groups and trade unions can help us by telling the world about the independent left in Ukraine and the fact that there are left-wing Ukrainians fighting on the front and organising among workers. This is important because many see left-wing politics as tied to Russia’s imperialism. Instead, we need to build an internationalism within the labour movement that seeks to unite all the workers of the world — in Europe, the US, Latin America, Africa, Asia and Ukraine.